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 Is it just Sweden or...? 
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 02:51
Posts: 16
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?
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Not an idiot, always question myself and demand of my philosophy a consistent and congruent rational continuity, not an idiot again, bla bla bla, see you around later maybe.

I am one of many things many anarchists fight against, true. Though I think I could unite with anarchists for the purposes of abolishing the federal government when/if it is most reasonable, but after that it's probably back to our respective states and for some of them, trying to rob me.

I never denied that there are multiple kinds of anarchism and anarcho-communism is most often attributed to them, I only said some anarchists don't see that as 'real' anarchism and that position makes the most sense to me. There is a difference between "it belongs within" and "it equals, it is synonymous."

And yeah, most Americans (and Canadians) are ignorant about what Democracy is, what it was named for, what good it does in and of itself, and what bad it can do. But Americans say they love what they think Democracy is, and often. Wilson/Bush/Truman/Eisenhower/Kennedy were spreading that goodness around the globe, right? I think the good part of what we have to offer is a constitutionally limited government and a classically liberal republic, and the democratic process is the dangerous part, but I get what they're getting at just the same. They look at it as synonymous with freedom... sometimes it is, sometimes not, but the fact remains 'Democracy' still gives people warm tingles.

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Close your eyes, can't happen here/big bro' on white horse is near/the hippies won't come back you say/mellow out or you will pay/mellow out or you will pay!


26 Feb 2010, 06:52
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Sweden

Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 17:19
Posts: 5
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Ignorance towards other people is dumb.

I have been a proffesional soldier for more then half my life, and i defend the right for people to think and have opinion for them self.

Thats democracy for me, the right to have an opinion!

All other that want to oppress other, with their thoughts.
Can't really say that they are right!

My 5 cents.


26 Feb 2010, 07:48
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Joined: 04 Jan 2010, 10:51
Posts: 51
Location: Metropolitan France
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Oiskin wrote:
I have been a proffesional soldier for more then half my life, and i defend the right for people to think and have opinion for them self.
Thats democracy for me, the right to have an opinion!

Ye're illogical to me, I don't know the kind of people ye fought against but don't they have the 'right to have an opinion' ? Is Democracy about fighting everyone isn't on its side? I guess yes. Because the politics have their own view on loife - if I don't think loike them - am I inevitably wrong?

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26 Feb 2010, 16:37
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Sweden

Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 17:19
Posts: 5
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

I defend the right to think for your self, to shape your own future.

Not getting dictated by others.

But your right in one way, democracy do tell a minority not to do it their way.
But we can't all do it our way, then we would have nothing at all.

Democracy is the best way we have for the moment.


26 Feb 2010, 17:27
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United States

Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 19:38
Posts: 22
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Verv wrote:
Swedish Skin is illustrating a problem I have heard about for a very, very long time, and what is funny: the right wing is gaining speed in Europe.

Thank God.

I am no leftist, but I believe in freedom and democracy, and the greatest threat to that is the people like AFA and any of those groups that target people they call "fence sitters."

To these fucking scum, having a shaved head and not being some born again leftist Pawn makes you a 'fence sitter,' and oh Sweet Christ, heaven forbid you consider yourself a 'nationalist' and believe that the Americans are right for bombing the fuck out of a rat's nest of terrorists like Afghanistan.

I am well aware this site is crawling with leftists but it is called "punks & skins," and that means you are going to have to put up with the fact that not all of us are leftists.


FUCKING CHEERS! Well said. The AFA are fascists. According to the leftists, anyone who takes pride in their cultural heritage is a racist. It's like we're being forced to lose our cultural identity, it's not right. Even Oi Polloi, well known Scottish anarchist band speak about cultural repression, mostly by the English. But they also have songs in Gaelic, Scotland (and Ireland and Wales) native language. Does it make them racists? Hardly.


08 Jun 2011, 23:40
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Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 11:00
Posts: 16
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Oiskin wrote:
I defend the right to think for your self, to shape your own future.

Not getting dictated by others.


But...
Haven't you been a professional soldier for more then half your life? So, as a soldier, you were thinking for yourself and not getting dictated by others?
:roll:

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09 Jun 2011, 08:29
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Romania

Joined: 31 Dec 2011, 21:47
Posts: 13
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

I just got here - didn't expect such elevation of intellect and critical thinking, i'm glad to see this!

Anarchists, you do realize that you will never escape groupthink, even without traditional form of government?

There are dozens of non-centralized cultures that have very strong social norms enforced by complex socio-psychological mecanisms that can be compressed in one word: symbolism. Anthropologists call them non-segmented cultures.

Best you can hope for is the path of least resistance : a culture that favors individuality to a greater degree. But even then people will associate and create dominate norms that to some degree alienate people who don't fit them. People create norms as they go along , based on others, read about the "lightspot" experiment.

You can use the argument that our current system favors the mobrule or hivemind (to combat the overwhelming results of experiments and data on these issues), but i reckon there are psy. evolutionist theories out there to prove that wrong.

The problem with the conventional political philosophies is that they tend to either negate nature or upbringing. The liberal ones tend to negate the "natural" human tendencies and the conservatives tend to favor the natural argument.

At this point you are left with non-falsifiable theories and metaphysical side-taking that discredit a institutionalization of your beliefs. (aka utopian stuff that won't get to see the light of day, if in the minds and hands of rational individuals - which is not the case - so you have a shot lol)

Also SwedeSkin, in what region of Sweden do you live and how much of an outcast are you for your beliefs , Sweden and Norway are my fav. countries, too bad they are ridden with the pseudo-leftist (the 60's marxist takeover of liberalism) and feminists (female supremacists)


01 Jan 2012, 00:12
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Netherlands

Joined: 18 Dec 2011, 12:00
Posts: 19
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

The first thing you have to realise is that extremes are mostly bad. The extreme left threatening or even trying to kill people who they don't agree with are as evil as the extreme right who try to do the same based on nationality.

Then why does a group like the AFA attract quite a big more negative response than right wing groups who mostly stay out of public view?

Without looking at left or right, I think it has to do with the following:

Being anti-racist is in most countries and cultures considered as a good thing. This is the side the AFA claims to support.

Being racist (and I also mean people who don't like foreigners just because they're foreigners, which generally means people with a different skin colour) is considered bad by most people in general and is even against the law in most countries.

Which means that even a moderate "racist" (described as above) will attract bad sentiment when he expresses his views.

While someone who is in any way "anti-racist" is just considered a normal healthy human being.

Back to left and right.
The right has always been easily identifiable with prejudice against people from another country. E.g. they (meaning different skin colour again) come here and profit/steal our jobs/money.

The left on the other hand has quite some leeway before they run into the extreme left where people tend to be scared off by extreme believes.

Now it's very easy for "the right" to blame all the left for the ones on the "extreme left" but the basic truth is:
Just as not every person on the right is a neo-nazi. Most of the left do not support the aggressive extreme left either.

However using the extremes are an easy tool for both sides to discredit the other side.

Extreme example of these can be found in the US, where people in congress admit not to want to work with the other party and even claim on national TV that their sole purpose is to see the other side fail.

While the truth is: The right and left both have ideas that are good and the only way to make this planet better is to meet each other in the middle and focus on the ideas that both sides agree on and work from there.


01 Jan 2012, 13:56
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Im not sure how it works in Sweden but where im from my crew would fuck up a bunch of mac toting, little shits for bringing that around. If they come at you with fists, go at them with a bat (or hockey stick being from Sweden).

02 Jan 2012, 13:04
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Im not sure how it works in Sweden but where im from my crew would fuck up a bunch of mac toting, little shits for bringing that around. If they come at you with fists, go at them with a bat (or hockey stick being from Sweden).

02 Jan 2012, 13:05
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Im not sure how it works in Sweden but where im from my crew would fuck up a bunch of mac toting, little shits for bringing that around. If they come at you with fists, go at them with a bat (or hockey stick being from Sweden).

02 Jan 2012, 13:05
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United States

Joined: 06 Jan 2011, 04:00
Posts: 50
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

communism didn't work and so many people had invested all their faith in it that they declared that it wasn't the same as the original marxism that was drafted. In reality it is because the system just doesn't work at all, people who are too proud to admit that just say it wasn't the same type of communism that was intended and then you get the different 'factions' which are just made up ideals added, anarcho-capitalists calling themselves marxist or red-anarcho whatever. People don't understand the meaning behind words they say and thus you get all this confusion

29 Apr 2012, 22:45
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United States

Joined: 06 Jan 2011, 04:00
Posts: 50
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

The truth about Capitalism is that it is Anarchy. Capitalism has an economic brand (free trade, ect.) It comes from the Enligentenment philosophies of the right to life, liberty, and property. The harder you work the more you get, competition breeds cooperation when two sides realize that they can both benefit if they work together. Now there is a lot to dive into when you talk about economics and anything I just mentioned above surely does not address the full scale of things, it is just an incredibly simplified definition so dont go on and rip it apart. What is more important to me is the social aspect of Capitalism, the idea that no group of people, organization, or government can tell people what to do or how to live their life unless it in fact infringes on another individuals persuit to live their life the way they choose (I can do whatever I want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody). This is all enlightenment philospohy. The truth is that the media and government had scared people into believing that their are things out their that are trying to take away this freedom and then the government comes out and says (forfeit some of your rights and give us more power so we can eliminate this threat or social issue, and this happens every decade untill 100 years later the society is now a corporate totalitarian state that declares itself to still be a capitalist democracy but it is in fact nothing like that anymore. This allows people to rip on capitalism because they think it is what is restricting their life and liberty; their natural rights that all deserve upon birth. The truth is that what they are hating on is this coporate totalitarian state, but it is easier to just call it capitalism when you don't know what you're talking about. What has resulted from this corporate/totalitarian takeover is reactionary groups on the "far right" and on the "far left"

There is a lot more i'd like to say but I am ready for dinner and a nice shower, so peace.


29 Apr 2012, 23:45
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Spain

Joined: 20 May 2012, 03:56
Posts: 5
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

viva la revolucion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF5x8aX8e1o


20 May 2012, 04:01
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Sweden

Joined: 26 May 2012, 02:06
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Man this thread is a mess, sure i've had some run ins with a few PC bastards back when i was a skin, and yeah sometimes people i knew got attacked because they didn't bother to ask which side we were on (it's a bit ironic since i am left-wing myself, so were some of my friends) or if we were on any side at all.
I admit that this was far from pleasant, but then again, PC people seldom is.

But through the years i've gotten to know a few Anti-fa activists and like all people, some are complete idiots and some are not.

Can't say the same for the extreme right-wing, they are all idiots, and will always be complete idiots.

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26 May 2012, 16:29
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Sweden

Joined: 26 May 2012, 02:06
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Btw Oiskin mate, to some point i understand why you don't like getting hassled by dirty crustpunks (again, not all crustpunks are idiots either, some just look that way) but i really don't agree on comparing the left-wing party/the social democrats with PC bums and here is why.

When asked about how they view the system alot of them do not like to work and avoids it at all cost, they do not like paying taxes because it supports an "oppressive system" but have no problems with the system when reaping the benefits of a welfare system which was built by the (old) social democrats almost a century ago and of course they do not seem to realize that this system only works because of...taxes.
They protest against the democratic system by not voting on elections since they do not even find the most extreme left wing parties (for example Kpmlr, who clearly did not learn anything from Soviet and are communists in the truest meaning) suitable because they do not believe in our form of democracy. In other words, some of them are worthless even to their own wierd "cause" since they never do any real change in society except for, pissing people off and giving bystanders the impression that the left wing is composed of a bunch of PC idiots who not only makes no sense but also looks like our generation of hippies. The sad part is that they pass on this gibberish to future generations of kids who wants to make a difference.

Now if we compare this to various ism's it ends up closer to a mix of neo-liberalism, stupidity and a touch of disdain for the common worker (some even scoff at the thought of becoming a tax paying working citizen that contribute to society). In my eyes this is almost as far as you get from being socialist/leftwing, it's just stupid and i really can't take these people seriously because it makes no sense. Sure, they do not like nazis or the upper class (who does?), but that is all i have in common with these "people".

So when comparing the dreadlocks PC police to the left wing party who works within the democratic framework to benefit people with low income i fail to see the similarity, and to be completely honest, i do not see them having that much power even if they win the next election in a coalition with the social democrats since they by tradition rarely gives a flying fuck about what the left-wing party has to say regarding the more radical changes (which mostly is about raising taxes, swedish parliamentarism rarely gets more violent than that).
Sure, it is a bit distasteful that a handful of people in the left-wing party call themselves communists, but one must keep in mind that far from everyone stood behind L.Ohly when he proudly stated to the press that he was a communist and a fucking idiot. There is a reason he is not the chairman of the party any more and good fucking riddance.

In other words, we won't get to see a new era of stalinism in our wonderful country since the social democrats blocks the more radical propals (which, as i stated above mostly comes down to disagreement regarding taxregulations) from the left wing party and vice versa. In other words, there is besides a few kooks close to noone who actually wants a new Soviet on our hands, and thank the lord for that.

I call my self "strict left winger" and for me that means to set things right, in some countries it might mean overthrowing crazy korean dictators who believe they have superpowers *coughKimYongYong* and build up a fair system from scratch.
But in this case, i believe that general improvement for the working class (like improving workers rights, put a little more money in the educational system, bettering the health care etc) through democratical means is the way to go since what we have is probably as good as it can ever get in comparison to the rest of the world.

In the end i doubt that very few besides commie Ohly and the crustpunks actually daydream about overthrowing the government because what we have is (in my opinion) the best system in this messed up world and the vast majority of our people realize this. We just have to improve what we allready have, halt the right wing from selling out the cornerstones of what makes our country great to finance their tax cuts and keep on doing what we have done for the past century.

Well mate, thats my 50-öre and i hope it makes sense because if it doesn't, it means that i am too drunk.

Cheers

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26 May 2012, 17:46
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Sweden

Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 09:11
Posts: 1
Post  Re: Is it just Sweden or...?

Swedishskin wrote:



In my opinion, Nazism and Communism are just as bad as one another, they're both dictatureships which supress the people, taking away the rights from the people, just doing so in different ways. I'd even say the basic idea of National Scosialism sounds a lot better than Marxism, although I have to admit I haven't read too much about the 'real' marxism everyone speaks of.

However, today the swedish communist party, Vänsterpartiet, earlier known as Vänsterpartiet Kommunisterna (Leftist party, Leftist Party the communists) is in the Swedish goverment, with a leader who both wanks and sticks up his finger in the public, and are 'allied' with the Scocialists and the Enviroment-whiners.


The Left party (Vänsterpartiet) wasn't in the government in 2010 and it isn't in the government now. We have had a right wing government since 2006 and they are currently ruling with the support of former nazi-party (now jut more generally racist islamopohbic right-wing populist) Sverigedemokraterna. it's not very hard to get simple facts like these straight,you should really do a little reading.


Quote:
Besides, the so-called Scocialists have had a campaign of ethnic cleansing and to create race-segregated laws in the northern parts of Sweden, something most people doesn't even know about unless you have lived there or have friends/family there yourself.


Bullshit. I live up in northern Sweden and know people from all around here. I have also known some really racist people from different parts of northern Sweden and i have never heard a word of this crap you are speaking of. Stop making stuff up.

Quote:
When one watches what's going on in Malmö and Göteborgh (Malmer and Goethenburg?), one believes it's pictures of a warzone in Iraq, until you realize it's the Swedish Police Department's vehicles and cops running around with riot shields, until one recognizes the towns that are on fire, seeing a bunch of different groups, AFA, Leftists, Immigrant kids, who does this more for the thrill than to achieve their goals... Unless their goals in fact is to lay Sweden in ruins?


Try going to Malmö or Göteborg,they're both quite nice cities. Of course there are a lot of problems due to our societys being the way they are but you really shouldn't swallow the nazi/Sd hype about Sweden turning into Sharia-land.

Most of the stuff you post just seem to be the typical SD-propaganda/misconceptions. You should be a little more critical towards the so called "facts" the immigrant-bashers put forward. They're experts at making stuff up.

Regarding the rest of the discussion in this thread it seems to me that a lot of people need to do some reading and gain a better understanding of terms like "Communism", "Marxism", "State-socialism" and so on. Otherwise you'll start doing silly things like thinking that the so called "extreme left" likes the Soviet Union and other things.


10 Jul 2012, 09:24
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