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 Hardcore in Europe 
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Hardcore in Europe
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I was reading, Get in The Van, by Henry Rollins the other day. He was talking about how much abuse Black Flag used to get in Europe, especially England. I recall a conversation that I had with Roger from Agnostic Front about ten years ago where he was saying the same thing when they toured in the 80's and early 90's. Having been across the pond a few times over the past few years I have noticed that festivals over there are packed, club shows are overflowing and several friends in hardcore bands actually make a living wage now. When did American Hardcore catch on in Europe and how popular is it right now?

05 Jul 2011, 02:25
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011, 04:05
Posts: 68
Post  Re: Hardcore in Europe

Oh, lets get started with A few facts:

Europe had some of the first true punk bands.
The Festivals in Europe have some of the biggest names in American Punk/Hardcore and European Punk/Hardcore.
American bands that can only book clubs here, Can book shows twice as large, and ALOT of the times those shows will be sold out.

Now lets get down to the roots of your thread and the answer you are looking for.

Alot of bands Like The Adicts and The Exploited book bigger shows here in America then they do in England/Other European countries.

Same the opposite way around. European music never seemed to slow down or stop.

Alot of bands like Black flag, Suicidal Tendencies, Rancid, The Casualties, Etc... Prefer touring in Europe and South America. It's more popular Today then it used to be in the 80's and 90's.

Anyway I got very sidetracked.

For a real slimmed down answer here you go:
Alot of bands couldn't afford to even go to Europe to tour, but When bands like The Ramones and Black flag finally went to Europe people made bands after seeing them and Europe became suddenly attracted to American Punk and Hardcore. Into the 80's it got even more popular, by the 90's It was quite popular in the underground scene in Europe. Well into the 2000's Europe's underground still had insane amount of American hardcore, New and old. Into the 2010-Now years alot more Festivals have started and alot of them are full of Hardcore bands.

In a pure answer, It started in the early 80's and it is still just as popular today


05 Jul 2011, 06:01
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Re: Hardcore in Europe

Are you European? I didnt ask when it started or the genesis of it. America started hardcore, "We did it louder, we did it faster, and we did it with more love". I asked when American hardcore started gaining popularity in Europe. In other words when did the mainstay of silly, fashion bands like The Exploited, Anti Nowhere League, Vibrators (not that it doesnt have a certain cathchy appeal) and bands where image and complaining seemed to be paramount over message lose their monopoly on Europe? Not that all of Europe is enamored with only that kinda music, Extreme Noise Terror, Napalm Death, Conflict were great bands and today many bands from Europe play some hardcore that if I didnt know any better I would have though I was at a matinee show at C.B.G.B.'s in 95. Deviate from Holland is one of my favorite bands (I think one of those guys is in Wisdom In Chains now). I have been into hardcore for a long while now (East coast style, Boston born) and started going to shows when i was twelve, almost twenty years ago, and can attest to the fact that many bands (Sick of it All, A.F., Cro Mags, Nausea) claimed that it was an unhospitable environment for a long time. I know thats changed, when I see Madball and Terror in France at a festival there are thousands of people there. That is awesome, but when did this happen? Dont tell me the early 80's, that's a load of shit. First hand accounts makes that claim false.
And when you see flyers from festivals in 84 or 85 it's always the big hair, fashion bands that take precedent over the American bands (and bands like Rudimentary Peni, Flux of Pink Indians, etc.) Read Get in the Van, or talk to some of these guys.


05 Jul 2011, 16:46
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Post  Re: Hardcore in Europe

arobin34 wrote:
Are you European? I didnt ask when it started or the genesis of it. America started hardcore, "We did it louder, we did it faster, and we did it with more love". I asked when American hardcore started gaining popularity in Europe. In other words when did the mainstay of silly, fashion bands like The Exploited, Anti Nowhere League, Vibrators (not that it doesnt have a certain cathchy appeal) and bands where image and complaining seemed to be paramount over message lose their monopoly on Europe? Not that all of Europe is enamored with only that kinda music, Extreme Noise Terror, Napalm Death, Conflict were great bands and today many bands from Europe play some hardcore that if I didnt know any better I would have though I was at a matinee show at C.B.G.B.'s in 95. Deviate from Holland is one of my favorite bands (I think one of those guys is in Wisdom In Chains now). I have been into hardcore for a long while now (East coast style, Boston born) and started going to shows when i was twelve, almost twenty years ago, and can attest to the fact that many bands (Sick of it All, A.F., Cro Mags, Nausea) claimed that it was an unhospitable environment for a long time. I know thats changed, when I see Madball and Terror in France at a festival there are thousands of people there. That is awesome, but when did this happen? Dont tell me the early 80's, that's a load of shit. First hand accounts makes that claim false.
And when you see flyers from festivals in 84 or 85 it's always the big hair, fashion bands that take precedent over the American bands (and bands like Rudimentary Peni, Flux of Pink Indians, etc.) Read Get in the Van, or talk to some of these guys.



Let's get down to buisness. I was born in Europe, but that was so long ago I can't remember a thing. I have lived in America for so long I want to go back to Europe by the time I'm 30 or so.

Anti-Nowhere League are 4 Bikers who thought that the Ramones and Stooges were the Shit. Fashion- My ass. They dressed like that LONG before. I have to admit America did have some loud and fast music, but as soon as fucking Exploited and Sex pistols came out they made america look like pussys. The Exploited were fans of punk and liked to dress like it.

Try this qoute Social distortion(1980's I think)- I dress like this to reflect my music, my emotions and What i stand for. IF I didn't dress like this I couldn't play this kind of music. I don't know why,I just do it.

Alot of bands just had to have some stage preformance as well: Gwar(Used to be Hardcore punk), Misfits, Plasmatics, Gg Allin and lots more.

Lets try another approach while we are at it on my part besides defence. "LOLOLOL I SAW a FLYER AND READ A BOOK FROM A GUY THAT WAS ALWAYS HAVING SEX AND DOING DRUGS HE REMEMBERS IT PERFECT". My dad went to the Mid-80's Festivals in Europe all the fucking time. He said there was a mix. Everything from The Ramones to the Exploited, Buzzcoks and lots of other stuff. Most of those flyers had Uk bands beacause UK IS IN EUROPE.

I honestley hate America beacause they think everything one sided. You might as well call The Ramones a Fashion band.

Anti-Nowhere League:
[img]http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/8371025/AntiNowhere+League+league.jpg[img]

All they do is look like a Punk Judas Priest sort-of. With all the Leather anyone can look like judas priest though.

[img]http://www.punknews.org/images/bands/ramones.jpg[img]

They have more leather and they sing about "Punk" drugs and Alchohol,Oh but they aren't Fashion.

Like my dumbass friend said at the recent(Very recent) Sick of it all show "What a fucking fashion punk that dude in the Gbh shirt is". His ass got Leveld with a mans fist for saying stupid shit like that. The dude in the Gbh shirt said the most interesting thing as well.

"Fashion punk my fucking ass, Back in the day when people weren't dickholes they didn't care how you looked. That is what seperated England from America. America called us poseurs just for dressing the way we wanted to. Punk is doing what You want to. And america is against that? Sad as fuck". (Like that just shorter and screaming while partialy drunk)

Anyway to make it short: We didn't do it faster or harder. If anything we made it weaker. Ramones were Americas 1st punk band, And they were almost pop. Sex pistols spit on people, Threw bottles at people , Got in fights, Played harder and louder and stirred up ALOT more stuff than the ramones did in their entire career. Understand this.

In 1982( I think) the Ground breaking album Punks not Dead came out by The Exploited, who are from Not England or America. The Majority of europe besides Northren europe took YEARS to catch up on hardcore. By the Mid-80's bands were formed in France, Spain, Russia and everywhere else.

Mid-80's is about when American Hardcore finally came and started touring in Europe, but by then there was fucking European hardcore that was just as loud and maybe faster. So the Festivals were mixed. English bands touring with American, English with Irish bands. Lost of shit.

This arguement is a pointless peice of shit. Stupid american fuckers like you are quite stupid. Reading a book and seeing a flyer DOESNT MEAN SHIT.
My dad said " The festivals were mixed with A wide assortment of bands and even Genres". Mid-80's was when it kicked off. Gwars 1984 Hardcore punk album went Double platinum. Suicidal tendencies was booking shows in Germany. Sick of it all and Agnostic front Were destroying anything in their path at european shows.

Now fashion band is a fucking stupid ass way to put something. Who gives a fuck about fashion? As long as you make good music, KNow what your talking about Who cares? Wait douches like you care. Hmm Lets think this out. You are Alot Older than I am probobaly and you are still stupid in this sense.

In a civilized one way awnser: Anti-No where League "So what". They don't give a fuck Lol. I'm pretty sure alot of American hardcore bands are overlooked by The Exploited and Gwar, and others, but So are European bands by Ignorant Americans. In the Mid-80's it was a mix between Counter Cultures, Anarchists, American hardcore and European Hardcore.

Uk punk: Dude the Ramones show last night fucking Killed! It was almost as good as The Buzzcocks!

Us Dickhole: The Ramones show killed! Atleast they aren't poseurs like The Exploited, Stupid fashion punks.

If you really think The Exploited are a fashion just for wattie having a mohawk and others having a Anti-Fashion dress code, you are stupid. The world will never progress unless they can look past diffrences to find good. Talk to a fan, Not a band. Untill you see it from the point of view of a Uk punk Squatting in a "Skinhead House" Barely fed and thirsty, You won't know what it is like. My dad was atleast 28 when he moved out(Now he is like a Architect or some Shit). Alot of people were forced into that kind of lifestyle. Wattie Buchman of The exploited had a shitty life, No job,and Loved punk music. Don't base your oppnion off a few flyers and a book. Talk to a REAL person.


05 Jul 2011, 17:39
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United States

Joined: 26 May 2011, 17:26
Posts: 102
Post  Re: Hardcore in Europe

HaHa. O.k. Hardcore is an American thing. Minoor Threat, The Mob, SS Decontrol, Black Flag, Agnostic Front. If you would bother to read my post I did talk to real people. I have seen Sick of it All play in basements, Ensign play at VFW halls and countless other bands in very intimate circumstances and have had a chance to get to know most of these guys over the years. Half of them camped out in my moms living room before they made enough money to pay for hotels. Ive had a chance to talk to many of them. I didnt mean to sound indignant when I asked if you were from Europe, I was genuinely curious. That being said i could honestly give a fuck less about most punk rock since I saw punk and disorderly years ago. "We want to be different from everybody else by all having ten foot mohawks and jackets with 2 million studs", thats definately a recipe for individuality. Honest punk is awesome but a lot of it was, and is, so fashion based that it doesnt hold my interest. Ive talked to real people, so why dont you try reading the book? Its an honest question. You might want to consider that your dad may not be giving you accurate information.
P.S. Tampere S.S. put out there seven inch in 84, excellent Dutch hardcore punk (a bit of a difference between hardcore and hardcore punk)
The Ramones and the Buzzcocks are both horrible bands that I could care less about so lets stop using them as examples.


05 Jul 2011, 22:33
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011, 04:05
Posts: 68
Post  Re: Hardcore in Europe

Lets get this straight. I'm going to lay down some facts.
We both like alot of the Same Hardcore bands, and have seen shows at Vfw halls and shitty house Partys/Basements even.
I've had 3 band memebers sleep in my room with me a month or two ago.
You have had alot more experience than me in this field.
You've talked with a few of these bands(I trust you, beacause I have talked to members of punk bands for hours before)
We have a common enemy- Fashion punks, The kids who wear Punk band shirts beacause they think it looks cool, Or get mohawks just beacause the want to be punk.
I do have to Admit one thing, I can't defend much about european hardcore after the First wave of punk hit. Kids that live in 2 story houses purposeley tearing their clothes just so they can saftey pin them, Pretending to have to be DIY even though they just buy it from a Local clothing Exchange.
America never seemed to have this problem, Which i give America respect for that, but the douchebagery sense gets quite anoying. Some dude said I was a fashion punk just beacause I had a 11 Inch mohawk and a Plaid vest. I knew all the bands, I've seen half them in shitty clubs, My hair falls in about 4 hours after the Elmeres glue slows down, And I don't think I'm a fashion punk if I'm the fucking same as anyone else just dressing diffrentley.


05 Jul 2011, 23:07
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